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Author name (Administrator) #1
Member since May 2011 · 2485 posts · Location: Brisbane
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Subject: Talking to the APA
Quote by NFG:
I DO have opinions about the APA and how it's being run.  I didn't bring them up with you or anyone else 'cause we don't have any kind of history or dialogue to build on. 

I aired my feelings to several guys at the conserve and, aside from some tangential ramblings they more or less agreed not only with what I said and suggested but the reasons for doing so. 

I don't know you, I don't know Rhys, and I honestly didn't think anyone would be interested in hearing what I thought.  The guys I talked to suggested I talk directly to you, but I couldn't even pick you out of a crowd.

You think I was 'cowardly hiding behind the keyboard', well I didn't see you guys making any efforts to initiate a dialogue either.  I'm a shy guy by nature, and I was nervous as fuck trying to get any kind of facetime with you guys.

pkaus and the APA have a lot of common ground and it shits me to see these silly divisions 'cause of bruised egos or whatever the history is.

He replied, and since I don't yet have his permission to post that reply, here instead is my reply to that.

it was easy to see who i was and am.
Yeah, I dunno.  No nametag, no introduction (Hi, I'm chippa!).  I'll gladly wear the responsibility for this one, I found it far easier to meet people who approached me or were in my group.

Getting right to the point, here's what I was saying to other people about the APA.  Contextually this came about as part of a much longer, free-wheeling conversation so it's not as if I was wandering around going "Yo, fuck the APA" as a conversation starter.   Some of the people I talked to were paid members of the APA, so on their part I don't really think there's a bias.  Most of them who weren't members planned on becoming one soon, so if anything I think the fact that they agreed with me on most points suggests that my ideas had value to the people who value the APA.

There are two main points:

1. The leaders of the APA need to be leaders.  Having the head APA guys lashing out on forums sets a bad example.  The 15-page thread about me is a pretty good example: Rhys launches out of the gate with an attack and sets the tone not only for that thread, but for the whole forum and organization.  If you go to a restaurant and find everyone who works there exhibits poor customer service, you'll probably find bad management at the top.  If the guys at the top present a public face that is mature and measured, the members will follow.  (I should clarify that I'm not expecting the guys running the place to suddenly become all cheerful and wondeful - just present a public face that is)

I'd like to see the guys leading the APA be leaders.  Raise the bar. 

2. The off-topic forum.  I think this is something that should be made non-public.  The APA is ostensibly an organization that is setting a serious tone and comprehensive framework for parkour in Australia.  While I recognize the value of an off-topic section, I don't think it's something that is valuable to the uninitiated.  Keep it out of the public eye, available perhaps only to members, people with a certain post count, or at the very least, invisible to people who don't register on the forum. 

Moving on:

I don't know Jerds' motives for starting pkaus.  I do know that it's not any kind of successful business, if in fact you're right about that.  Jerds has been described by at least one person up here as an opportunist, and I think that's probably true some of the time. 

To his credit, when I approached him about his waning interest in pkaus, he did not hesitate to give me the keys.  I think it takes a big man to create something like pkaus and hand it over to someone else.  Whether that speaks more to my position in 'the scene' or jerds' big ol' heart I don't care to speculate.

I do know that, in my mind and in the minds of everyone I spoke to, pkaus is the community site.  It's where we hang out with like-minded people.  I view the APA as the organization setting the rules, playing it straight and being serious about parkour.  pkaus is where they come to relax and discuss similar interests (freerunning, tricking, WHY). 

I see the two sites as complimentary, though I have no doubt there are dissenting views.  I'd prefer to see more work done between the two sites and communities, 'cause we can sure as shit accomplish more together than apart.


That's what I said to them, and they all seemed to like what they heard.

Quote by Chippa:
sharing is fine, but id ask that we have our discussion first before you post everything up, if you get what i mean. let us come to an understanding between ourselves before we let other peoples two bits get in the way of what we are trying to do.

its up to you.

ill write more on what you have stated above in the next day or so, very busy ATM.

one question. do you pretty much have control of the forum now? and ramon takes care of contact through the website? or do you receive emails from the wbesite as well?
This post was edited on 2007-10-22, 14:48 by NFG.
Author name #2
User title: sex on the beach
Member since Sep 2007 · 10 posts · Location: Brisvegas
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nice, im happy they listened, i didnt think they would, i thought they would just read it and delete, them write up a 20 page post about how ur lame.

on another note, the minions of the A.P.A think there the best, well the one i saw and wanted to drown at least. nobody disrespects my camera man >.>
Author name (Administrator) #3
Member since May 2011 · 2485 posts · Location: Brisbane
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You haven't been following the 15-page "Fuck that NFG kid, fuck him hard" thread on the APA forum, obviously.  They hate me for my arrogance, then get over that and hate me for being rude, and figure out it was someone else then hate me for taking pictures, then sort that out and hate me for someone else.

The guys in Sydney are just filled with such ANGRRR!!  =)   

And remember, tell no one about this thread ok?
Author name #4
Member since Sep 2007 · 176 posts · Location: Kobe, Japan
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basically the way i see it after last weekend:
Everyone fails at separating the  organization (APA, pkaus) from the people.
every time someone has a personal issue with someone else it becomes a 'you are from *insert organization here* and your ideology is all wrong! i hate you and yours!'
ironic really because Chippa actually mentioned this at the AGM..but he seems to do it just as much as everyone else...

does anyone else feel like pk in Australia is turning more and more into a religion, with fanatic (blind) devotion to rigid ideologies?
“Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others.” J. Postel
Author name (Administrator) #5
Member since May 2011 · 2485 posts · Location: Brisbane
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does anyone else feel like pk in Australia is turning more and more into a religion, with fanatic (blind) devotion to rigid ideologies?
This is something I've seen happen in most communities.  People naturally seek to protect things they treasure, but it's also important to remain free and open and allow evolution.  It's the second half that typically loses out, and like all freedoms we must remain constantly vigilant.

I had this discussion with Jerds: I'd like to see pkaus be the laid-back centre of PK/FR for Australia, where ideology is discussed on friendly terms and tolerance being the fundament.

This has recently cropped up in the WA forum on pkaus.  The OP in this case is lamenting what he sees as the dilution of something he values. 

Two things he said stood out to me:

With the fundamentals omitted, you are simply teaching them how to roll, precision jump, muscle-up, cat pass etc... All unrelated activities without a connection. State that it is the same training for someone who does want to train for parkour, but clarify that without the intent, it is NOT parkour.

If I take a driving trip up north with a few friends, where we stop over at a road-house to stretch our legs and let the car cool down for a bit, say 30mins. To kill the time - we pull out our fishing rods to see who can throw a line the furthest, then we draw a line in the sand and see who can jump the furthest from standstill, grab a basketball to see who can chest pass the furthest - according to the newbies, I just did fly-fishing, parkour and basketball in the middle of a dusty, flat patch of woop woop land! Look Ma, I just did 3 sports, aren't you proud of me???

My reply follows:

What you're suggesting, at it's core, is (and correct me if I'm wrong): "People who don't totally devote their lives to parkour should not say they're doing parkour." That strikes me as fairly elitist, and I encourage you to tell me if I've got it wrong.

Your basketball analogy is faulty as well. Where it might be correct in your example to say "We played with a basketball" there is no equivalent for parkour, is there? If I go out and do 30 turn vaults in an afternoon, can I not say I was practicing parkour? Maybe I should say I was doing turn vaults, but what if I was doing 6 other things? Are we not allowed to summarize or generalize anymore?

As far as I'm concerned if you're doing moves that are part of parkour's skillset, you're doing parkour. Six kids with a mini soccer ball are still playing soccer even if they're not on a world cup team. Or to you think Ronaldinho bitches at kids in sand-lots as he drives by in his limo?

If you don't want anyone using your 'parkour' incorrectly I think it would behoove you to offer an alternative term.

As for confusing the people with the organization...  I think it's very easy to relate the two when, as a rule, people from a specific place or group all exhibit similar behaviours.  The Sydney guys, by and large, all tend to be fairly aggressive and lash out before initiating conversations or seeking accurate facts.  Are they all like that?  No, but it's pretty easy to say that "Sydney guys are angry!" and not be far from correct much of the time.
This post was edited on 2007-10-12, 10:44 by NFG.
Author name #6
Member since Oct 2007 · 5 posts
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there is simply too much hating and not enough training going on.
Author name #7
User title: soaking up the sun.
Member since Oct 2007 · 12 posts · Location: Brissy
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I agree with misfit, there's such anger and too many arguments...its shouldn't be this way! It's parkour, not a battle zone lol
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