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Member since May 2011 · 2485 posts · Location: Brisbane
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Subject: This man understands Free Speech.
I do not know who this man is, or what he stands for, but when someone asks him if a book he wrote is offensive, I know from his answer that he understands free speech.

Quote by Philip Pullman:
"It was a shocking thing to say and I knew it was a shocking thing to say. But no one has the right to live without being shocked. No one has the right to spend their life without being offended. Nobody has to read this book. Nobody has to pick it up. Nobody has to open it. And if you open it and read it, you don't have to like it. And if you read it and you dislike it, you don't have to remain silent about it. You can write to me, you can complain about it, you can write to the publisher, you can write to the papers, you can write your own book. You can do all those things, but there your rights stop. No one has the right to stop me writing this book. No one has the right to stop it being published, or bought, or sold or read. That's all I have to say on that subject."

This is powerful stuff.  This is what separates immature societies from mature ones.  This is how you can mark the regression of our own, as we give up the freedoms we once had for a safe world where ideas and words are culled before they are ever expressed.  I do not want to live in a world where my sphere is safe from the assault of contrary ideas.

To all the people I know, friends and family; politicians in my country; leaders of oppressive regimes and free countries; muslims and christians: if this is the kind of world you want to live in, I think you're an idiot. 

(found on boingboing)
BLEARGH
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Member since Apr 2010 · 32 posts · Location: Brisbane
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Here here.

I am all for religions being around and letting people participate in them if they wish. But I ponder you this: Is it acceptable to let religions preach and teach their ways to young (sponge like) minds and to those desperate for help? Now I understand in a totally free world the answer is yes.

But is it fair to call someone "free", if during early development they were indoctrinated to think only 1 way? Or call someone free if they are only alive because they received aid from religious groups on the condition of unwavering obedience? This is where I would draw the line and would say some thing need to be separated were other take advantage of people not in the position to help themselves or to young to understand consequences. And subsequently governments should be totally free of all influence bar the life experience of the politicians themselves. i.e state separated from religion but a christian elected politician using his religious background in his work.

I understand the many many issues that come with his as to boundaries and limits but I do believe some do need to exist.

Thoughts?
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Member since May 2011 · 2485 posts · Location: Brisbane
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The indoctrination of the young has long been part of the problem, hasn't it?  It's abhorrent to anyone outside their cult circle, but from within it seems as if they're doing the right thing.  I honestly have to believe that most christian parents are hoping their kids grow up to be whole-hearted believers, without hesitation before their god, in ways that their parents could not fully succumb.  It's like parents teaching Esperanto as a first language - maybe the next generation can succeed where they have not.

I believe in science.  I believe in the scientific method.  I believe in skepticism and debate and facts, and the rules and laws built upon them.  It is these things we should teach our children, and little more.  Morality springs from a community building towards a common, greater future, not wrathful bearded blokes in the sky.  If you need a god, or the threat of damnation to sell your vision of virtue, you've failed.

Oh, I think I'm sort of drifting from the point.  Indoctrination bad, science good.  Agreed!
BLEARGH
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Member since Sep 2007 · 176 posts · Location: Kobe, Japan
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Being brought up to believe in the scientific method is also a form of indoctrination.
Luckily the scientific method is more rational than any other system we could be indoctrinated into (as far as we know at the moment).
“Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others.” J. Postel
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Member since May 2011 · 2485 posts · Location: Brisbane
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I dunno.  Indoctrination usually means someone is being taught something specific.  Being taught to question everything you're told, to examine the facts and methods, and to make up your own mind is not indoctrination.  It's being taught how to think, how to cast your mind open and decide for yourself.  It provides the framework for deciding what to believe, not the belief itself.

I guess then it depends on how you define indoctrination exactly.
BLEARGH
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Member since Apr 2009 · 59 posts · Location: Bendigo
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The very fact that scientific method teaches you to question everything (including its self) means that you can't be indoctrinated into it..
Indoctrination offers no choice, no alternative; science says that if you see no valid proof of it, then you're welcome not to believe in it. And you're not going to burn eternally for it (unless the sun is going to get stuck in a permanent state of supernova).
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Member since Sep 2007 · 176 posts · Location: Kobe, Japan
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[Image: http://www.nfggames.com/bmayer/hosted/Science!.jpg]
“Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others.” J. Postel
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